Oppo-pinion: Truck buying: Update

"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario) 07/17/2017 at 15:49 • Filed to: Car Buying

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Update: I went down to look at the truck and take it for a PPI. Unfortunately I did not come back the proud new owner of a 7.3 diesel. The first issue was when they pulled it around and the sales guy wanted to show me something. They didn’t know how it happened, “maybe someone was trying to steal it”. What? Ok. So I was expecting the door handle to be all screwed up or something. No the problem was somehow one of the rear wheel well fenders got ripped off.

Ok, whatever, just let me take it to a shop for a PPI. Second issue becomes apparent on the drive to the shop. Why the hell don’t I have any boost? This wasn’t an issue when I drive it a couple months ago. No boost, no power, it was a dog driving it to the shop.

The shop finds what they think is the issue. It looks like the exhaust line going to the pressure sensor is disconnected. Not sure how that happens. I also noticed the truck seemed louder than when I test drove it the first time, with the truck on the lift I can see the exhaust was cut off right below the cab. And it looked fairly fresh.

Finally I notice there is a bunch of brush debris in the covered bed that was not there when I took it for a drive a couple months ago. All these clues are making me think some employee borrowed it for some yard work and beat the ever loving piss out of it. And returned the truck hoping no one would notice.

I told the dealer it’s a definite no at their current price. The sales guy didn’t even counter, just said sorry it didn’t work out but I’m sending it to auction at this point.

Kind of bummed. Oh well, I’ll find another truck eventually.

Original:

I want your opinions Oppo. I’m looking at this truck right now.

It’s reasonably priced compared to the rest of the market around here and has been at this dealership for ~4 months. They just dropped their price again to a point where I’m interested. I don’t like the black out everything, so I would replace the lights and remove the plastidip from the wheels. I don’t need a dually, but for the right price it doesn’t bother me. But besides that it’s extremely clean, runs well, and only has 98k miles on it. Also, it’s the 7.3 which should be good for another 300k miles.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

So Oppo, is this a good price point? Any concerns you would have with this truck?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 15:50

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Link if Kinja’d

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=452725072&zip=53103&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D53103%26startYear%3D2001%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2001%26modelCodeList%3DF350%26makeCodeList%3DFORD%26searchRadius%3D50&startYear=2001&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2001&modelCodeList=F350&makeCodeList=FORD&searchRadius=50&makeCode1=FORD&modelCode1=F350

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 15:53

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top tip, all you need is the listing ID, everything after that isn’t necessary to provide a working autotrader link, it may decrease instances of getting KINJAD!

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=452725072

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 15:55

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My immediate take is it’s a bit high. This truck has another 20k miles but is 4k cheaper and hasn’t been murdered out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Ford-F-350-/112284624447?hash=item1a24af663f:g:bncAAOSwLEtYjQnU&vxp=mtr

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 15:55

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It’s amazing how these hold their value! They are the price of a brand new Fusion. For an ‘01!

The black out everything is kinda ugly, is that as far as the previous owner went in modding it? Or did they run a programmer or anything else that could’ve seriously dialed up the HP/TQ?

Finally, I take it you have actual need for diesel power?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 15:59

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Wowza, that is a LOT of plasti-dip. Honestly I’d be afraid of it hiding poor paint/chrome repairs. THose are common rust/wear areas on pickups, especially work trucks. Do a “good enough” job with some sandpaper and primer and dip over it and sell it for profit.

BigBlock440 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/17/2017 at 16:00

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There’s a reason that one’s $4k cheaper, it’s got the 6.0.

Nibbles > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:00

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It’s not even broke in yet. I’d buy it and remove all traces of BRO. At least’ ‘round these parts, that’s a nice price

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BigBlock440 07/17/2017 at 16:02

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Is the bigger engine worth that much to you? What does it give you?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/17/2017 at 16:03

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I don’t think it was tuned or anything, everything looked stock under the hood and there wasn’t any programmer in the cab.

I am kind of on the edge of needing diesel (towing a large boat), but I haven’t liked how the gassers I’ve test driven drove. So I’m heavily leaning diesel.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:03

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I thought they had issues with injectors on the 7.3. Seems a little too good to be true but it is a 16 year old truck. So maybe age is playing a bit into the price. Mileage is stupid low for a truck this old.

TheRealBicycleBuck > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:04

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That’s a lot of truck. Planning on moving small countries?

benjrblant > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/17/2017 at 16:04

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7.3 was well built and more durable than a cockroach. 6.0, not so much.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/17/2017 at 16:04

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That’s also only RWD and has the 6.0 diesel. The 7.3 commands a premium due to its reputation.

jimz > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/17/2017 at 16:04

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Is the bigger engine worth that much to you? What does it give you?

it’s not a 6.0, and that’s worth a lot.

Nibbles > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:05

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Think of it this way: You buy a dually F-350 and, if you ever need anything bigger, you may have problems

jimz > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:05

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can you pay cash? it gets hard to find a lender who will write a note on a vehicle 10 years old or older.

Slant6 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:08

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What’s your alternative? A F250? Dually really doesn’t seem worth it, think about replacing 2 extra tires. And parking. And yeah, I’d imagine if you’re boat towing you won’t be parking in places that are too tight, but those few times you do will be a nightmare.

My 2 cents, if you’re paying that much for a 16 year old car it better be a perfect fit for your application, no compromises.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > jimz 07/17/2017 at 16:09

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Unfortunately not, but I ran into the lender problem with high mileage vehicles and most of the smaller lenders (local/regional banks and credit unions) didn’t seem to care about age just mileage

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/17/2017 at 16:10

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The black on the rockers and bed bottom are not plastidip but is the bed liner paint/coating

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:10

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Ooooohhhhh okay now I see the gap. That explains it for sure.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Nibbles 07/17/2017 at 16:11

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haha, too true.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > benjrblant 07/17/2017 at 16:11

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TIL about powerstroke motors.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/17/2017 at 16:13

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Maybe a few medium sized ones too. I’ve mostly been looking at F250s/2500s, but this is a better price than any of those that I’ve found with less than 150k miles.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:13

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Ah, I see, how heavy is this boat? Just out of curiosity. I’m thinking about a boat in my future and with that, as for you, comes a truck-decision.

For just a little more than this ‘01 7.3 liter you could probably have a truck with a 3.5 ecoboost in it, worth considering, since the truck would be 13+ years newer.

As for this truck, I do like the interior! Super clean. The outside would be nice too once you un-mod it, lol. That dually though, would it negate just about any gas mileage advantage you get from diesel?

TDIGuy > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:14

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The truck looks very clean and you are right the 7.3 is much better. I had one with 350k miles before I sold it. But I would not pay that kind of money for one. Especially with all of the blackout treatment because that means whoever owned it before wanted to modify their vehicle but did not have a lot of money to do so. In other words, it may have been riden hard and put away wet by a younger driver. There is a good chance it is clean as it is because it was a hand me down of some sort.

Tripper > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:15

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I’m no help with pricing big trucks, but I like it! Oppo’s truck game has gotten pretty serious lately.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 07/17/2017 at 16:18

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The boat is ~6k lbs emtpy. I figure the trailer probably adds another 1-1.5k lbs and proabably another 500-800lbs of fuel and gear on board. So loaded I’m probably towing ~8k lbs.

I definitely want a 3/4 ton or bigger though, I’ve towed it with a couple newer 1/2 tons and I definitely can tell a difference in the competency between those and the bigger trucks.

I don’t think the dually affects gas mileage too much.

BigBlock440 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/17/2017 at 16:24

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The fact that it’s bigger is a bonus, but the 6.0 was a bit of a problem child. Displacement doesn’t really mean much in the diesel world, at least not as much as other features. Take the Cummins for example, the 5.9 will probably fetch a premium over the 6.7, even though the 6.7 is bigger.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:29

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Ah interesting. My cousin tows a similar weight. He had an ‘08 F150 with 5.4l, that was NOT up to the task. After towing it several times the F150 started leaking out of just about anywhere there is a seal. It still runs fine, but I imagine its life is significantly shorted. His dad blamed Ford for all the parts it needed too. I blame an 8k+ pound boat+trailer, lol.

Now he has a ‘17 Silverado with a 5.3l and fairly tall gearing, it should do better, we’ll see how much better though!

So all that to say, I agree, you should probably go for the 3/4 ton. Or at least the top of the engine range in a 1/2 ton.

jimz > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 07/17/2017 at 16:31

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to clarify; the 7.3 (T444e in Navistar-speak) is a rather over-built cast iron lump, with each cylinder surrounded by 6 head bolts. Stout motor.

However, it was getting obsolete so Navistar replaced it with the all-new VT365, which Ford branded as the 6.0 Powerstroke. The VT365 moved up to 4 valves per cylinder, but for various reasons they only have 4 head bolts around each cylinder which makes it an inherently weaker design. Plus, they were trying to bank emissions credits for future standards (the 6.0 was a lot cleaner than the 7.3 so they got credit or each engine shipped before the standards took effect) and it was rushed into production. Then since Ford was trying to catch up to GM’s Duramax it was pushed up to power levels greater than in any of Navistar’s own applications. Head gaskets were a common, frequent failure and the easiest way to change them starts by lifting the cab off of the frame. Plus there were turbo failures, EGR cooler failures, fuel injection control module (FICM) failures, injector “stiction,” and so on. By ‘06-’07 it had settled down but by then its reputation was trash. They can be a reliable engine if they’ve been “bulletproofed” (head studs, EGR delete, etc.) but it’s really not worth the hassle.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:34

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A dually will cost you a bit of mileage (increased rolling resistance, aero drag and unsprung weight), and it will also have shorter tire life than you might expect on the rears. The rear tires are always scrubbing when turning. This maynot matter to you, but it is worth knowing going in. On my 01 GMC 3500 4wd dually, I would get 30-40k out of the front tires, but only about 20-25k on the rears running mid-range all terrains and a mix of weekend highway towing and city driving during the week.

For towing, you will grow to really like the stability and braking capability a dually affords.

Your estimated on the boat weight going down the road sounds about right. Even on the newer 1/2 tons, that’s right about the weight where I start to prefer 3/4 ton trucks.

6691 zapS > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 16:43

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Parking? PPI at a body shop?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 07/17/2017 at 16:45

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How much of a fuel penalty did you see with the dually? I know there will be one, i just figured it would be 1-2MPG, which isn’t a big deal. I didn’t know they get worse tire wear, makes sense though.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/17/2017 at 16:54

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I don’t think they have injector issues, if so that’s the first I’ve heard

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 17:11

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It was in the 2ish mpg range compared to a similar non dually truck.

Saracen > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/17/2017 at 18:06

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There are no injector issues. Just make sure you’re using Ford approved oil, and keep the oil clean and changed at proper intervals. Biggest issue with 7.3's is they can develop lots of little leaks. But they’re all easy to fix. Eventually it it will need new injectors but not till well past 200k miles. There’s a lot of life left in this truck.

The only weak link in this truck is the 4R100 transmission, but it works fine at stock power levels. And this truck looks like it has a tranny temp gauge, which is good because it’s a must for towing with a 4R100.

Saracen > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/17/2017 at 18:11

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That’s a super clean truck! And mileage is crazy low! Price is in line for what people are getting for sub-100k 7.3's,

I’d say get a PPI. Make sure the transmission is in good shape. Get it inspected for leaks (fuel bowl, water separator drain valve and turbo particularly). Inspect the underbody and make sure it’s rust free. Also inspect the bushings and such in the front end. Also make sure the A/C system blows cold.

7.3's rock! Mine was on the high mileage side, but it runs great and I love it. Come join the 7.3 Oppo’s!

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Saracen 07/17/2017 at 19:12

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I’m going tomorrow to take it for a PPI then I’ll decide if I buy or not. Leaning towards buy if everything checks out

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > jimz 07/17/2017 at 19:34

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I still find it nuts that taking the cab off is the easiest way to replace head studs on those

Hammerdown > jimz 07/18/2017 at 09:18

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From what I’ve read much of that reputation came from bad diagnosis or guys trying to push way too much power through them. Yes, the EGR thing is a mess and a little work can certainly give you piece of mind, but they’re not a time bomb like most people think.

A coolant filter, EGR delete, and regular maintenance at stock power levels and a 6.0 can last a long time. Do your research and give it a good inspection and you can get a bargain.  

Hammerdown > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/18/2017 at 09:20

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I guess they were somewhat designed for that. Stuff like the master cylinder stay with the frame (I think) so that it is easier to take the cab off. From what I’ve read its just the body mounts, unhook the steering and pedals, all the electrical connectors and lift it up.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Hammerdown 07/18/2017 at 10:39

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I’ve heard the 6.0s are fine if you stay stock, but so many people tune their diesels it absolutely is something that should have been built into the design of the engine.

Hammerdown > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/18/2017 at 10:58

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I don’t disagree with you there. Ford definitely rushed the 6.0 into production. They didn’t really have the tech to make it a firebreather and emissions compliant. Torque to yield headbolts are also a ridiculously stupid idea on that engine.

19JRC99 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/18/2017 at 21:06

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Just a heads up, I’ve heard these are easy to steal. So if you get one, beef up the anti theft.